“I think they’re just trying to sell hate”
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- August
- 27
The latest piece of campaign literature to come out of the District 12 County Legislature race contains an error that some say really isn’t an error at all.
Sent out by Preserve Ramapo in support of Airmont Trustee Joseph Meyers, the back side of the glossy mailing talks of Legislator Patrick Withers’ support from Ramapo Town Supervisor Christopher St. Lawrence, former Assemblyman Ryan Karben and Legislator Ilan Schoenberger, D-New Square.
D-New Square?
Schoenberger has never lived in New Square. He lives in Wesley Hills and has since the early 1980s. The village of New Square is included in his legislative district.
That was not a mistake on the mailing, he said.
“I think it’s an attempt on their part to appeal to the people who are anti-Semitic,” he said.
I’ve tried to reach Preserve Ramapo Chairman Robert Rhodes, but my phone message wasn’t immediately returned. I’ll update once I hear from him.
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UPDATE: Rhodes said that he knows Schoenberger lives in Wesley Hills, “but he has always been the representative from New Square.”
When I told him about Schoenberger’s comments that the mistake appealed to anti-Semitic supporters, Rhodes said he was “full of [doody.]” Except he didn’t say “doody.” Sorry- it’s a family newspaper.
Rhodes also said that Schoenberger has made a career out of calling his opponents anti-Semitic.
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Withers, D-Suffern, and Meyers are vying for the Democratic nomination for District 12. The primary is Sept. 18.
This entry was posted
on Monday, August 27th, 2007 at 3:38 pm by Sarah Netter. 
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Category: Airmont, Fall election, Ilan Schoenberger, New Square, Patrick Withers, RAMAPO, Wesley Hills
Who are you quoting when you say “I think they’re just trying to sell hate”???? Yourself?????? Get a grip!!!
Question: Why does Ilan feel being called the representative from New Square is…”selling Hate”? or “Anti-Semetic”?
AND… why doesn’t the representative for New Square (who ever that may be at this point) address the pressing fire safety issues concerning our firefighters who requested a hearing about the life and death conditions there should a fire ever break out?
Ilan… worry about the safety of the folks in New Square and our firefighters who have to deal with the fire code violations there… or is that anti -semetic too?
Recall.. Ilan and the legislature criminalized warming up your car or idling at kiss and ride.. but turns a blind eye to fire safety code violations in New Square… Dr. Rhodes just may have diagnosed Ilan’s intestinal capacity limit correctly… he is full of it.
Ilan Shoenberger’s entire career has been based on his service to New Square, and New Square provides him with about twice as many votes as does Wesley Hills.
His connection to New Square was not so obvious during the twenty-five years that he was first an assistant county attorney, then the deputy county attorney, and finally the county attorney. It became much more obvious after Republican Scott Vanderhoef became the County Executive and he was forced out of office.
Schoenberger’s political clout and its basis in New Square then became clear. Using New Square as his political base, he became a county legislator. As a junior county legislator he was given the most desired position in the legislature—chairman of the finance committee. He only relinquished this position after he was given a most generous gift by Ramapo Supervisor St. Lawrence; despite the fact that he is an attorney, not an accountant, he was appointed the Ramapo Director of Finance. This job pays about $90,000 a year and is an almost no show job. When I FOILED his time sheets to see how much time he devotes to this activity I was informed that he is not required to keep track of his time. So now he has a private law practice, he gets $33,000 a year as a county legislator, $90,000 a year for a job that is mostly carried out by a $55,000 a year employee hired to actually do the job, and both his wife and daughter are also on the public payroll. But I digress.
Like many of our county legislators, his district has a weird shape created in order to protect him, not the best interests of the public. At one point his district consisted of New Square and a tiny corridor of land that linked New Square to Wesley Hills where he actually lives. Nowhere in this country is the fine art of gerrymandering practiced with less embarrassment than in Rockland County.
There is a difference between ethnic politics which have always existed in our country, and which have contributed to our political democracy, and anti-semitism. No one is Ramapo is allowed to point out that some areas deliver a 99% per cent vote to Schoenberger and St. Lawrence. And no one is allowed to point out that they consistently represent this minority to the detriment of most of our residents without being attacked as an anti-semite.
Schoenberger will always have the safest district in the county legislature. He knows that he will always get more than twice as many votes in New Square as in Wesley Hills where, if this were really his district, he would have been voted out of office years ago.
The only public political weapon that Schoenberger has is his continued use of slander. He consistently calls his political opponents anti-Semites. Unfortunately, in the past this tactic has worked. The many Orthodox Jews who oppose Schoenberger and St. Lawrence will not criticise them in public because they fear the slander to which they know they will be subject. This is a truly vicious political tactic. Unfortunately for these gentlemen, this tactic is beginning to lose to potency.
I was going to place a long commentary here, but I think Mr. Rhodes summed up the facts and circumstances quite nicely. I would only add that it appears to me Preserve Ramapo is trying to accomplish exactly what there name indicates. All politicians beholden to the bloc vote are equally guilty of destroying what is left of Ramapo, and Rockland County as a whole. The special treatment and underhanded deals are simply mind boggling. On a positive note, and to reinforce Mr Rhodes’ observation, the slander and anti-semtic accusations cast by politicians and members of the bloc vote are thankfully beginning to be viewed for what they really are: baseless distractions.
To MaryJayne: The quote used in the title of this blog posting was made by Ilan Schoenberger.
Rohdes does it again. For years he has mixed in to any issue that has the Hassidics involved. He has no problem with any development except where orthodox Jews are trying to build. Then it is over development and no water sewers or traffic…..
He hates StLawrence for not fighting the Hassidics and Schoneberg for not Hating them too.
He has no issue with anyone else except anyone who assists or is appreciated by the Orthodox Jewish community.
He may have changed the name of his SAVE RAMAPO blog to preserve Ramapo but we all remember the dribble and hate he wrote in the past.
Rohdes is trying to build up a swell of anti orthodox-anti semitisim against anyone too helpful to those Monsey type Jews!
LET HIM SAY THE TRUTH. Even if we had all the water in the world and the greatest sewer capacity with a park of many thousands of acres next door for green space (Harriman?) and if we had NO traffic, Rohdes is opposed to any growth in the Hassidic Jewish areas.
Yet he claims he is not a racist or anti-semitic!
If it barks like a dog and walks on four ….. it a dog!
He placed his sidekick and pupet Castiluccio as the new front of Preserve Ramapo after he admitted that his camp allowed pornographic films to be made on the Deerkill daycamp property, that should show you what values he has.
Now he claims his father let them shoot the film but he did not “know” how pornographic it was. SURE!
Everyone is personally entitled to hate who ever they want (freedom of speech) but don’t mislead the public.
By the way what is a Block vote?
If many Christians vote for Rohdes would that be a block vote or only if its orthodox Jews.
If you win anywhere with a landslide is it a block vote.
Democracy allows everyone to vote as they please even if it for someone that Rohdes dislikes!
Preserve Ramapo have consistently opposed ALL high density housing, not just high density housing for the Hassideic community, because our roads, sewers, and water supply are not adequate and we have not planned for the environmental consequences of this kind of housing.
If you are interested in my review of RLUIPA and my call for responsible regional planning for affordable housing for ALL peoples click on RLUIPA on the right left side of our blog http://www.preserveramapo.org.
Thank you.
What a disaster Preserve Ramapo is! I’ve met Ilan Schoenberger, and if he represents a part of New Square, or all of it, who cares?
Also, if a Legislative candidate is supported by other elected officials in the same Town that’s a good thing.
I think Preserve Ramapo just behaves badly, had bigotted ideas, and has it out for anyone who is Orthodox or Hasidic.
Ilan Schoenberger, thankfully, isn’t like that. Neither is Christopher St. Lawrence, Patrick Withers, etc.
And, I live outside of Ramapo…...and I wish Mr. Schoenberger, or Mr. Withers was my Legislator, and that Mr. St. Lawrence was the Supervisor.
Mr Rohdes is not being forthright when he says “because our roads, sewers, and water supply are not adequate” When Kiryas Joel wanted to coonect to the New York City main he opposed it by saying that would make more water available and thus allow more homes for the Hassidic community to be built. And the last time i looked Kiryas Joel is not even in Rockland County.
Bob say it like it is ” I dont want them in my back yard”.
The lie is transparent and unbecoming, the public is not as blind or foolish as you think.
NOTICE how the “anti” bloggers are NOT anti – unsafe fire hazards or imprudent down-zoning and simply engage in unintelligent name calling?
Not one of you addressed the FACT of the unsafe fire conditions I brought to your attention. This is not an opinion.
Dr. Rhodes is entitled to his opinions as you are entitled to yours BUT Dr. Rhodes cannot be accused of hypocrisy; whereas your postings here; match you to the word perfectly.
To prove me wrong you must agree CSL turned a blind eye to it and to prove me right is to avoid it or invent an excuse for it or name call me next. – check-mate -
Did you NOTICE how the “anti” bloggers are NOT anti – unsafe fire hazards or imprudent down-zoning and simply engage in unintelligent name calling?
Not one of you addressed the FACT of the unsafe fire conditions I brought to your attention. This is not an opinion.
Dr. Rhodes is entitled to his opinions as you are entitled to yours BUT Dr. Rhodes cannot be accused of hypocrisy; whereas your postings here; match you to the word perfectly.
To prove me wrong you must agree CSL turned a blind eye to it and to prove me right is to avoid it or invent an excuse for it or name call me next. – check-mate -
Take note how the “anti” bloggers simply turn a blind eye to violations of fire codes endangering the lives of our neighbors and fire fighters and prefer instead to engage in quite unintelligent personal insults over what we all know is political pandering.
All the while, Ilan and CSL and you are completely aware of our firefighters admonishments; yet still choose to trump them in return for votes and mask it with the magic “anti” word.
Now to prove me wrong you must acknowledge Ilan and CSL endangered all those people over politics. To prove me right all you must do is ignore this, post a list of excuses, or name call me too – checkmate.
By the way what is a Block vote?
Bloc vote (from Wikipedia): “The bloc voting system has a number of features which can make it unrepresentative of the voters’ intentions. Bloc voting regularly produces complete landslide majorities for the group of candidates with the highest level of support. [...] small cohesive groups of voters can overpower larger numbers of disorganised voters who do not engage in tactical voting, sometimes resulting in a small minority of voters electing an entire slate of candidates by merely constituting a plurality.”
Looking at the 2005 election for supervisor (top three districts for each candidate, by percentage)...
District 55 (New Square): St. Lawrence got 836 out of 844 votes, getting 273 Republicans to cross party lines. The challenger, Joe Brennan, fielded a grand total of zero votes (8 blanks).
District 58 (New Square): St. Lawrence 790, Brennan 1 (257 Republicans crossed lines)
District 35 (Kaser): CSL 789, Brennan 2 (104 crossover).
District 30 (Monsey): CSL 585, Brennan 9 (90 crossover)
District 72 (Ladentown): CSL 2, Brennan 47
District 22 (bordering Harriman Park): CSL 8, Brennan 53
District 37 (Wesley Hills): CSL 46, Brennan 262
District 67 (Chestnut Ridge): CSL 69, Brennan 390
There are your top voting blocs for each supervisor candidate. The 26,000 vote question: what are each bloc’s common threads?
Naturally, your own answer will color your view of other’s views on this issue.
I guess then you feel that;
District 37 (Wesley Hills): CSL 46, Brennan 262
District 67 (Chestnut Ridge): CSL 69, Brennan 390
Are Block votes for Brennan?
Get off it. Are all Christians a Block vote too? How about all republicans (they are a minority in the US)
Face it Brennan got trounced and the majority of voters chose his opponent.
The Town has tried to be a representative of the voters intentions and that includes those who voted against StLawrence. Their are needs of a growing hassidic community that must be met. 30 years of repressive zoning and our villages that were formed to keep them out, has only led to hundreds of illegal and unsafe apartments.
I give him credit for trying to balance the need with some normal planning so that things don’t look like they used to along Rt306. The new projects (if you are for, or opposed) are somewhat decent looking in comparison to the projects of old.
_[...] Are Block votes for Brennan?_
Well, I did say that “there are your top bloc votes for each supervisor candidate,” though, maybe a more accurate description would have been, “here are the top vote-getting districts, by percentage, for each candidate.” And, have you ever seen an election (outside of the Communist era) where 3100+ people voted and “only a dozen (12)” vote for the opponent?
On second thought, it might be better to check previous years for voting trends. Answering the question, “Does the district tend to vote for “one” candidate year after year?” would probably be a better indicator of a bloc. So, to answer your question, “No, I don’t think that those districts for Brennan (necessarily) form a bloc vote.”
Face it Brennan got trounced and the majority of voters chose his opponent.
I guess that’s the way it worked. But, if you eliminate St. Lawrence’s top four districts, CSL’s winning 60-40 margin goes to 53-47. Picking up seven percentage points in just four districts?!
As you can see, support is concentrated in those districts characterized by their high population density. And high-density living is what I oppose. I, for one, don’t want to see Ramapo become urbanized. The bucolic burbs, so close and yet so far from New York City, were the draw for my family.
Richard: That was an eloquent, cogent, and illuminating presentation. I am the Ramapo Supervisor Candidate and hope I can count on your support. Thanks. Anthony Mele
Richard: You talk about those districts with “high population density” I wonder if they are the majority and they vote to address their needs, do you continue to call it a block vote?
I think they have a majority of children in East Ramapo School District yet even after placing their candidates on the school board they have been careful to balance the needs of all children in the district.
The answer is not to say “high-density living is what I oppose” but to say Unplanned High-density projects is what I oppose. We must find ways to allow them housing that their growth demands, yet do that in manner that is well planned and aesthetically pleasing.
I have been living here longer that most and I love the peace and serenity, but I am not blind to the needs of others and the unstoppable march of population growth.
By the way organizing to be more effective is allowed under our democratic way of government.
What Rohdes is trying to do is exactly the same find a group of voters that have something in common and organize them to have the maximum impact. That something in common may be the genuine desire for a specific candidate, or the common hate for a group of orthodox Hassidic Jews or some other “common thread”. Either way he is trying to create for himself exactly what he claims to be so unfair.
By the way organizing to be more effective is allowed under our democratic way of government.
What Rohdes is trying to do is exactly the same, find a group of voters that have something in common and organize them to have the maximum impact. That something in common may be the genuine desire for a specific candidate, the common hate for a group of orthodox Hassidic Jews or some other “common thread”. Either way he is trying to create for himself exactly what he claims to be so unfair.
I’m sorry, but for those who say that “anti” bloggers aren’t anti- fire hazard are wrong.
And, to support Supervisor St. Lawrence, Legislators Schoenberger and Withers, etc. isn’t being anti anything.
Why people have to call an area a “bloc” vote is absurd. Rockland resident always forget that those who are elected officials aren’t always bad, or in it for their own personal gain, etc.
Any work they do, i.e. pass legislation, or get grants for work to be done, seek bonds also, etc., they do keeping in mind that it affects them as well. If your taxes go up, well guess what folks? So does THEIR taxes.
Same with gathering open space, etc.
So far I think they are doing a fine job in Ramapo. A lot more than the other 4 Town have accomplished. Stop the anti-semetism and relax folks. Some, like Mr. Rhodes, just aren’t happy because they have a personal agenda that they feel ignored over.
Organizing is perfectly fine, whether it be the Hasidic community or Preserve Ramapo, and I doubt that either side will convince the other to tell their supporters “eh, vote for whoever you think best.” Furthermore, for better or worse, you can apply the “bloc” label or not; does it really matter?
The answer is not to say “high-density living is what I oppose� but to say Unplanned High-density projects is what I oppose.
No, really, I don’t think I want any high density growth. A continued maintenance of the “general character” of Ramapo: Open space and single family homes with a smattering of condos.
We must find ways to allow them housing that their growth demands, yet do that in manner that is well planned and aesthetically pleasing.
I will be the first to admit that I don’t quite understand their growth and housing needs… Why won’t single family homes work, and what’s best for their community?
(Regarding the “aesthetically pleasing” part: Though I’d hope that homeowners would build and maintain a residence that would fit into the general character of the neighborhood, I don’t want anyone in government telling me that my house has to be one of these 16 colors, etc. etc.)
The bottom line is this: Bob Rhodes picks and chooses which battles he is going to fight very carefully. Why did he support Bob Frankl’s plan to “downzone” Wesley Hills in support of Kwilecki but he does not support other developers? Bob is no fool. He is extremely bright. There will come a day when he will sell Deerkill Day Camp (corner of Limekiln and Wilder) for millions to Mr. Kwilecki or some other developer and he will “cash out” in the process to the tune of at least $12,000,000. He can’t be completely anti-development or he would be deemed a hypocrite so….he picks fights with the “block” vote. Everyone gets one vote. If a certain community is smart enough to vote together, more power to them. Why are their votes any less valid than any other votes? The districts where Brennan won were virtual shut-outs as well. There’s no difference but Rhodes sells fear. He is a person that loves to blame the “other guy.” He was a worthless trustee and he has it out for Schoenberger because of a personal vendetta between the two. It has nothing to do with right and wrong. Bob, put your money where your mouth is. Put an environmental easement on Deerkill Day Camp protecting the land for our future generations in Rockland. The day you do that is the day we know we might be witnessing a glimpse of sincerity. He is a frustrated politician plain and simple. Preserve Ramapo could be a great organization but Mike and Bob need to go. They have turned off more people than they have helped. He put Schoenberger’s district as New Square on purpose. He knows how to build upon fear.
Let’s cut the he said/she said stuff and get straight to the point. Everyone will have a vote in November and make their voices heard. You can sling as much mud as you want before then with name calling and slandering characters, but it won’t do much good.
We all know that Ramapo is in a critical state now. Our infrastructure cannot support the increase in traffic (try drivng on Rt.59 any day of the week!), we often times have limits put on our water (why do you think United Water was trying to buy water from Suffern?), our taxes are increasing every year (have you ever seen the list of tax exempt properties in Ramapo??) because those who do pay taxes have to pick up the slack from those who illegally claim tax exemption, and our sewers are at or very close to capacity (just look at the number of overflows in the last year alone). The facts speak for themselves if you are willing to do some homework.
I’m sure that everyone has a political agenda to follow, but the facts are the facts! This is the state we are in right now and something has to be done about it.
Turning a blind eye and patting our current policians on the back for buying swamp land and calling it open space is not fixing the problem.
ASH (Adult Student Housing) is a product dreamt up entirely by Christopher St. Lawrence. It is high density tax exempt property. I’m no politician but I know a money pit when I see one. I see my taxes going up every year too! I’m not opposed to development, just high density development. I moved here for the countryside, for tranquil living. Building complexes with 200 homes is not good planning for Ramapo or any suburban neighborhood.
What we need is good planning and intelligent development where EVERYONE pays taxes, not just schmucks like me!!!
Very interesting discussions. But the question is very simple: Why is Schoenberger, who lives in Wesley Hills, given the designation D-New Square?
The designation is used for legislative bodies up to the House of Representatives (If Eliot Engel, D-Bronx, represents a much bigger part of Rockland, geographically, than the Bronx, and receives more support, should we then call him D-West Nyack?)
 Nancy Cutler, editorial page editor/Rockland
Why is Schoenberger, who lives in Wesley Hills, given the designation D-New Square?
I’d like to say because it’s a lot more descriptive than just saying “District 4” but putting “New Square” in gives the mailer more “hey, he’s in their pocket!” punch to attract potential supporters.
District 4 does have a “peculiar gerrymander shape”:http://www.co.rockland.ny.us/Legislature/Hmaps/Hwy_and_LD.htm which makes me, at the least, wonder why they’d go through the trouble of doing that [“that” being “How do we get Monsey and New Square in the same district?”], but the same could probably be said for Harriet Cornell’s district 10. (Legislators sure know how to protect their seats!)
Another question, why did Bob Baird call him ”...the most powerful county legislator…”? (Rockland Journal News, January 9, 2003) Just wondering what the context was.
(And, I’d still like to know why high-density housing is the best solution for the Hasidic community…)
As for Eliot, or anyone heading down to Washington: as Rockland is never on anyone’s radar, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for a (D-some Rockland village) notation.
(hand raised) I can answer the Baird reference.
Bob was writing a column in 2003 about the change of chairmanship on the Legislature to Sal Corallo from Schoenberger, who was at the same time hired as Ramapo finance director. So, Schoenberger was freely turning over the chair. And, the column (remember, Bob Baird is a columnist, it’s his job to have opinions) actually said: “Ilan Schoenberger, arguably the most powerful county legislator..”
There’s the context.
And, by the way “Rockland is never on anyone’s radar,” is quite funny, considering the FAA airspace plan that’s riling up our politicians (after the DEIS was complete.)
Nancy Cutler
Editorial page editor, Rockland
(That quote from Bob Baird was on “Ilan’s district 4 page.”:http://www.co.rockland.ny.us/Legislature/bioiss.htm Actually, it’s the first thing that hits ya’.)
Is labeling a politician as being from “New Square” anti-Semitic? Only if people think being from/associating with New Square is bad. (Based on the responses, I’m led to believe that this is the case. Now, “Why do BOTH sides think this?”)
If Mr. Shoenberger really wanted to be “anti-anti-Semitic,” he should wear his New Square badge with pride. “Yes, I represent New Square… but I also represent Pomona, and Wesley Hills, and Monsey, and Montebello!” (Did I miss where he did do that?)
And, by the way “Rockland is never on anyone’s radar,� is quite funny, considering the FAA airspace plan that’s riling up our politicians (after the DEIS was complete.)
Oh, Alison (Bert) can tell you how funny I can get. Admittedly, that particular reference was unplanned.
There are people who believe New Square is tainted and labeling an elected official with the community will taint that official. Many people are obsessed with the Hasidic community, but don’t want to admit being anti-Hasidic lifestyle. They are just anti-high density zoning and development, and having houses of worship in residential houses. Lots of code words being passed around. Labeling Schoenberger, D-new Square, is just that
Nancy,
After the 2000 Census, and the redistricting that happened in 2001, a lot of areas were split in ways that didn’t make sense. Wesley Hills isn’t far from New Square really. Actually, if I go 2 miles I’m in the Ramapo part of Pomona, and just another mile and I pass Wesley Hills. If I go the other direction on 202, I’m hitting Clarkstown territory and in another, Stony Point.
Who cares who represents what? On the Board of Elections portion of the County website, one can go to Polling Place to see, by typing in your full address, who are your representatives from Congressional/US Senate level down to your school district.
I live in the Legislative District 5 (which is primarily New City) part in Garnerville. Town wise, I’m represented by the Town of Haverstraw, etc. But, for Legislator, I don’t pick someone from my Town. Do I care? Not really. To me, it still comes down to who the person in representing, or running, for that seat. Because no matter who it is, I make sure they know my concerns.
As for Mr. Rhodes, Preserve Ramapo, etc. Everyone has good intentions when they run, and not everyone is ever happy with elected officials. Doesn’t matter if they voted for them or not. All of our Presidents have been perfect examples. After 6 months, the jokes start on TV, etc. We’re an “internet” quick thinking society that expects our problems to be solved as fast as a toddler has a tantrum for the things they want. But, sometimes things go slower than we want.
I’ve heard, and read online, how Ramapo is a “machine”. The Town of Haverstraw used to be described that way. But, it is also a compliment. If something is working well, then why try to fix what isn’t broken. From all I’ve seen, the current Town Board in Ramapo and Supervisor, go out of their way to make themselves accessible to the public, and do what they can for a widely diverse portion of the County. It’s more diverse than the other 4 Towns it seems.
Legislator Withers also is a man who thinks on his own. As someone who is involved in our local County politics, and keep an eye on both sides, I’ve gotten to meet our elected officials at various times. Legislator Schoenberger is a fair man. Works hard to make sure that the County residents, not only those in New Square, etc., do not get hit too hard with tax increases, etc., the same as the other Legislators do. And, at times, they will all disagree, and Mr. Withers wouldn’t be afraid to stand his ground if he differed with Mr. Schoenberger. Ilan is a definitely nice man. Never have seen him lose his temper if he’s disagreed with, or to try and force anyone to do anything.
And, in Supervisor St. Lawrence, there is a man who has been nothing but cordial and very kind to all County residents, not just to Ramapo. And, he works so hard, that I really think if he had been Supervisor over 30 yrs ago, he may have to wear a name tag so his own family would recognize him. He may have to do that now, since his first priority is the Town of Ramapo. And, that means the WHOLE town.
It’s so easy for Preserve Ramapo, and others, to knock a current administration, but do they know that they’d face the same scrutiny, etc if the roles were reversed? Sometimes I wonder.
I thought enclosed communities (new square) , were a form of segregation and not lawful. Brooklyn had many gated communities and they were un-gated. there’s only one left and its on the outs.
Amazing how some people have more rights than others.
Since coming up here , I am just amazed at how it all works. one big mess.
If New Square wants to be enclosed and private, let it. Though, they should be more understanding if someone makes a wrong turn off 45 and winds up on Washington and trying to turn around.
And, I’d like to see them not go to the new park by the Hudson in Haverstraw and be intrusive on other people. For example, if picnic tables are full, they stand next to one they want to sit at and pester those people till they leave. People are fishing, yet then feel they can grab other people’s property and not find that wrong. BUT, God forbid, you speak to them first!
What I’d like to see of the representatives for the Hasidic community, and our local officials who represent that area, to ask them to understand that we have rules and laws and rights TOO. That private businesses in other areas are not obiliged to give them free sodas, or water, or access to restoomrs as if they are public domains for those purposes only.
That’s what I don’t like.
Let’s get to what CAN happen to Rockland if all of this development is allowed, especially the rabbinical “college”. Pomona and other parts of the Town of Ramapo will look like Route 45 in Monsey. If you have not been there for a while, I suggest that you take a look. It is very different than it was 15 even 10 years ago. I think you will be shocked at what a shanty town it has become. Town of Ramapo residents, WAKE UP! Do you want your house values to go down, do you want your schools not to be supported, and your tax base to go up due to the many residents that will be on public assistance (yes, I said public assistance), if so keep the current political figures in office. If not, vote PRESERVE RAMAPO, as far as this resident is concerned, there is no other option. I’ve been a Rockland resident for 34 years, believe me, it is the best and the only choice.
(I’m still wondering “why high-density housing is the best solution for the Hasidic community…”)
I don’t know if that would be, but we’re all way off the topic. Legislators Schoenberger and Withers, and the Town Board of Ramapo are doing a fine job.
And, if New Square falls into Schoenberger’s district, who cares? They are going to have to be in someone’e district.
I think Ms. Westlock’s zealous support of St. Lawrence and attacks on Mr. Rhodes is a little over the top. Unfortunately for Ms. Westlock, the independent facts support Mr. Rhodes. They are: The state of New York has declared that our sewer system is inadaquate, not an activist. The Town of Saddle River is suing us over overflows, again a fact. Tripling the size of a town like Pomona will cripple it. The East Ramapo schools are the worst in the area. They spend three times as much on transportation (for Yeshiva students) than other area districts (as a percent of budget). This hinders the classroom education of it’s students. The ASH zones mean people live there without paying taxes. That means a tax increase for everyone else in the town to cover thier services. The town’s plan for New Square to upgrade to code is to charge teh taxpayers of New York, rather than the builder, again taxes for Ramapo taxpayers.
Why should one group have rights that supercede the rest of the population. The zoning has been in place for years, when all groups moved here, they knew the rules. Now one group wants them changed for thier benefit. It is no wonder others oppose it. As for “rights” the Supreme Court once said it eloquently: “Your right to swing your arms, ends at someone else’s nose” The opposition is not religious, it is quality of life. We all bought into a rural lifestyle, no one particular group wants to tear it down at the detriment to others in the community. If all religious groups wanted to live in similar homes on similar size properties with one family to a home, there would be no issues. The only racist group is the one that wants it’s own rules and not to follow the rules of the community.
On the Block vote: Top 4 Areas for CSL 3,000 to 12 = 99.9%
Top 4 Areas for Brennan: 752-125 = 85%
Come on! At least some people were allowed to think for themselves. You wonder why we have ASH areas – Read those percentages over and over.
Mike,
Christopher St. Lawrence, and the Town Board have done more for Ramapo in the past few years than the late Mr. Reisman did, God rest his soul, in 30 yrs before him.
I remember, a couple of years ago, going to Ramapo Town Hall to attend a meeting with a friend who lives in Airmont, and we got there early. I watched Mr. Rhodes, and others from Preserve Ramapo, enter the meeting hall and proceed to behave like Kindergarten kids. Standing on top of the dias, and chairs, etc. I was appalled.
Plus, try heading to any shopping center, or to any event on any issue from the TZ bridge, to the FAA plan and you encounter Preserve Ramapo people who literally hound you to ask for signing GOD KNOWS WHAT type of petition. If you say no, they automatically and LOUDLY shout “Oh you support St. Lawrence and the machine!!!” I had that said to me, and when I said I don’t even live in Ramapo, they said that I still supported a machine. What childishness!
Now, that to me seems like a “block” vote that is only after ONE real interest. Their own. I don’t understand that people forget that all elected officials, here or in any other state, etc, face the same tax increases, etc that the rest of us do. Now, if people are smart, you have a good tax accountant, such as H & R block, and keep an eye on ways to save money yourself and find tax breaks.
Supervisor St. Lawrence is LIVE on public access every week, unless he has to be elsewhere, the Town meetings are shown LIVE, and he is more active for Ramapo than others in the whole County. And, it does seem that a good number of the County level officials from Ramapo are just as active, as seen by the FAA hearing.
When Mr. Rhodes and his “friends” behave like adults, that would be a great start.
According to the Rockland Sewer District #1 in the first four months of 2007 a total of almost 3.4 million gallons of raw sewage flood out of manhole covers. We also know that most of this ended up in the East Branch of the Saddle River which is the northern most source of Bergen county’s water supply.
We also know, according to United Water, that the maximum amount of water that it can deliver is just under 150 million gallons a day. We also know, according to UW that this is almost identical to the maximum amount of demand. And this, of course, assumes that our water supply has not been adversely affected by a drought.
More information on these issues can be found at http://www.preserveramapo.org.
Is it any wonder that Preserve Ramapo opposes ALL HIGH DENSITY building in Ramapo.
If, as I expect, Upper Saddle River, asks the federal court to enjoin all building in that part of Sewer District #1 that contributes to this terrible problem what will this do to the value of real estate in Ramapo?
We have thousands of wells in Ramapo, if many of them run dry what will we do then?
What will the impact be on our tax rate if many thousands of folks move into tax exempt “adult student housing.”
These are legimate questions that cannot be waved away by convenient, self-serving, and vicious charges of antisemitism.
Robert I. Rhodes, Chairman, Preserve Ramapo
I would have a pretty hard time living in a nice big house, paying about twelve to twenty thousand dollars in property taxes and then have my next door neighbor pay none, zilch. That is the one and only thing I can’t stomach. That would turn any ‘non anti’ person into an ‘anti’ person, real quick. Why doesn’t anyone address this issue? How much money our counties would have if everyone paid their fair share.